[livinginkorea]

Hi all,

This is kinda following on from the "Talk about your Korean town" and I know that a lot of you are teaching in Europe (England, France, Italy come to mind) and I am wondering if you could introduce your town?

My wife and I are planning to leaving Korea in maybe 2 or 3 years and I want to teach some where in Europe. I have no idea about where would be the nicest to work (location, wages, etc) so I would like "YOU" to sell your place!!

[susan53]

Hi - I'm sorry to be a wet blanket, but you may find it very difficult to get legal work in some parts of Europe if you're not a European citizen. I'll talk about Italy - you'd need to check if it's the same elsewhere. Unfortunately it's a catch-22 situation : if you are offered a job you can then apply for an employment visa, which will allow you to apply for a residence permit, which will enable you to get a work permit. But here's the catch - the application for the residence permit alone can take 8-12 months to process for non-EU citizens. And you're unlikely to find an employer who is willing to offer you a job so far in advance and then go through all the necessary paperwork. It's much easier from the employer's point of view to take on an EU citizen for whom the process is much simpler.
You can find out more about Italy if you click here, and I'm sure a search would turn up something similar for other EU countries. It's possible the situation is better elsewhere.
Good luck!

[livinginkorea]

Thanks Sue for the reply. I am from Ireland so I can easily work in the EU. I am just wondering about the working conditions, pay etc. I have only taught in Korea but will like to move back to some city in Europe in a couple of years.

Many thanks for your reply

[clivehawkins]

Hi livinginkorea

I'm in Sardinia where the economy is taking a turn for the worse. For the first time in 7 years there are some teachers who are still looking to fill their hours, a good few weeks after the schools have started their courses. Having said that there have never been so many schools either, so the demand for courses must still be there.

Italy is a nice place to come but you need some patience. People will try to con you left, right and centre. It's impossible to get anyone in a public office to do anything. People say 'yes yes yes yes yes no. Sorry.' Bureaucracy is hellish.

The average pay here is around 16-18 euros GROSS, 31 if you get work at the university, although that could take a couple of years to come through.
Rents range from 300-450 euros for a one bedroom apartment and a night out (pizza and drinks after) will set you back about 35 euros.

It's not as cheap as it was before the euro was introduced and the wages haven't moved much.

Anyway, enough of us have married sardinians and stayed here so it can't be that bad.
If you come over drop me a line before and I'll see if I've got any vacancies.

[livinginkorea]

Thanks clive, that post was really insightful. And here was I thinking that only the Korean government were con men!

To be honest I haven't been to Italy yet. Once of my cousins lived in Florence for about 6 months and loved it. I am thinking that anywhere in Europe would be nice to settle down eventually, it will come down to the money and if my wife can work there too. I am doing a masters now in TEFL so maybe that will open some more doors down the line.

My major concern is the enviroment. I got married this year and although we have decided not to have kids for at least a few years until we are in a stable enviroment and naturally good for kids. I come from Ireland but don't have any plan to go back there as work wise it might be difficult. Also my wife is a company teacher and if she got an Irish passport that would open the door for her in Europe but I think that she would have to live in Ireland to get the passport which would take two years I think.

It's a lot of moving around and thinking but nothing's going to happen for a while at least.

[clivehawkins]

Quote livinginkorea

My major concern is the enviroment. I got married this year and although we have decided not to have kids for at least a few years until we are in a stable enviroment and naturally good for kids.

I know what you mean. despite the slightly negative picture I painted there are a lot of positives here too - the main one being the complete acceptance and integration of kids in every part of society. In London we generaly don't take our kids to the restaurant etc but here they go everywhere and everywhere caters for them. There's always someone to lend a helping hand too. We've just had a baby and she's very well looked after in a nice environment. So on that front you don't need to worry.

I'm sure your Masters will get you up the pecking order in any of the universities and public institutions. Should really get round to it myself

[jenniferp]

Hi livinginkorea
A bit off topic, Im sorry, but I'm interested that you mentioned doing your masters in TEFL. Are you doing by correspondence? And if so, do you have any kind of classroom observation as part of the assessment?
I'm wanting to do something like that while I am here teaching and have spare time but I'm not sure where to start looking or what to look for.
Thanks for anyone with any advice.

[Pix]

Here's a bit about France, where I live.

Anyone considering coming here - well you'd be mad not to want to live here really - beautiful scenery, no traffic jams outside of Paris and the turnaround weekends during national holidays - fabulous weather and great food. Really a winning combination.

But the absolute nightmare that most francophiles do not know about is TAX. In fact TAX is not really an issue, the French tax the holy cow's dung out of you in social charges before you even get to tax.

If you want to be self-employed in France it's easier now with the 'auto-entrepreneur' fiscal regime.

Beware lest the sunny climes, rolling hills, world class surf, spectacular mountains etc. etc. etc. deceive you.

My brother-in-law earns at least 900 euros a day and works constantly - well you'd think he'd be well off. Ha, what a joke! You don't know France and the French government. Why else is the black economy so HUGE here?

In fact you can earn more on the dole, if you have enough kids, than you can trying to work.

So if you are planning to teach in France, for heaven's sake look into it first and NEVER give up your citizenship from your own country.

For example there is a wealth tax here which has forced these fishermen in Brittany to sell their homes. If your net worth is over a certain amount you have to pay a percentage of that to the government each year in wealth tax. Now this net worth includes your main home. Consequently there are plenty of people out there scraping the pennies together to get in their weekly shopping, but who happen to live in old family homes they inherited which are worth a lot because of the rise in property prices across Europe, who have to sell up just to be able to pay the wealth tax.

Well I think that's enough on that topic!

[clivehawkins]

Wow! Italy is pretty damn anti-business but that takes the biscuit! I've just started a school here and it's pretty much the same story - before I'd earnt a cent I was getting bills \ tax demands etc almost on a daily basis. The economy is in a mess but the system seems to want to kill off any new business before it even gets the chance to take off.

They'd be better off chasing the tax dodgers, and I mean large companies who pay nothing for years, rather than stamping on the little guy who with a bit of luck may actually be in a position to employ a few people somewhere along the line.

makes you mad, doesn't it?

[livinginkorea]

Quote jenniferp

Hi livinginkorea
A bit off topic, Im sorry, but I'm interested that you mentioned doing your masters in TEFL. Are you doing by correspondence? And if so, do you have any kind of classroom observation as part of the assessment?
I'm wanting to do something like that while I am here teaching and have spare time but I'm not sure where to start looking or what to look for.
Thanks for anyone with any advice.

I am doing the Masters via distance learning through the University if Birmingham in England who just as chance would have it, a Korean office just an hour from my house in a small university. I can get some books there and all the materials are sent from there to me. Also when I want to send something to Birmingham I can send it to the Korean center and then can send it on.

They have lots of questions. One recently was tape a part of your class and answer some questions on it checking out Inner and Outer language. Really interesting stuff. A lot of the questions have experiment type questions where you have to do some research and then write a paper every 4 months. So you spend 3 months reading/researching and then the last month writing. It takes about 2 and a half years and costs about 12,000 Euros. Expensive I know but it's not online and the degree will be the same as if I was there in person myself.

Don't go for an online course. Not every country recongises them so it could be a waste of time if you were to do it and it wasn't seen as "real." There is a lot of that out there so be careful.

If you have any more questions then ask away

-Livinginkorea

[livinginkorea]

I have an uncle in law living in Madrid, in Spain who ownes a school so that is always an option but I heard that the wages there aren't much.

Also the wife wants to teach too but she has a Korean degree which wouldn't be worth much. She makes a lot here in Korea being a business English teacher but would she is able to do that in Europe?

[michèle 2]

[If you want to be self-employed in France the government says thank you that will be 7000 euros in minimum social charges that you owe us, and the fact that so far you have only earned 1000 euros is totally irrelevant and we'll send in the bailiffs if we don't have the money by 15th December.
This is not a joke. Unfortunately.

Hi Livinginkorea!
shelley is right. France is not the country for someone who wants to earn a lot of money. it depends of what your goals are.
I have English friends who settled in France 6 years ago, live in the south west , found a job. One of them works for a property agency and the other in a local distillery .Their pay is not high but they like what they do and earn enough money to live on. they've just bought a old house in a hamlet with some works to be done,and have a beautiful 2 year-old girl. They left England because they wanted to get a better quality of life. They knew that they wouldn't earn a lot of money but they didn't mind. Last September i met some English people who runs a "gite". they said they were not as stressed as they were before and very happy enjoying life, good food and beautiful scenery.
The most important thing is to learn the language if you want to make the most of it here.

Michèle

[simplyesl]

I heard Germany is pretty hot at the moment. I was almost tempted to go there. Maybe next year?

[Donney]

Quote livinginkorea

I have an uncle in law living in Madrid, in Spain who ownes a school so that is always an option but I heard that the wages there aren't much.

Also the wife wants to teach too but she has a Korean degree which wouldn't be worth much. She makes a lot here in Korea being a business English teacher but would she is able to do that in Europe?

I have just opened my school and well I'm still losing money, but that should change in a near future. The god thing is that she could teach whatever she wants to because nobody really cares. It is not cheap to do but it is not as bad as in France.

[iankendal]

Teaching in Europe is less money true! but do you teach for the money or teach to live abroad?

[livinginkorea]

Teach to live abroad but with a wife and a couple of kids that will change a lot I'm afraid. I'm on very good money now in Korea, for 25 hours a week with Tuesdays and Thursdays off after lunch and my wife is working too but naturally when she has a baby that will be a lot more to do with how much I am making to support them. Also I'm doing a Masters in TEFL now as well so hopefully that will help me a lot to teach in some university or the like in Europe.